"SHUT UPPERY" IN ACTION

The following story was published in the on-line Wigan Today newspaper last week. A comment facility was opened for this story, and no, this is not about the Editorial team. I have no complaints about them – they seem to have behaved impeccably. Indeed, they have been rather indulgent … so thank you sir.

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigannews/Girls-in-race-hate-attack.5161832.jp

However, the “Report Unsuitable” button for comments is too easily abused. I have tested it: click on ‘Report Unsuitable’, and a window appears; write in email address, then write in the appropriate space the reason the comment is unsuitable. Click submit. However, when I tested it I wrote random words in the reasons box … and five minutes later the comment was deleted anyway (I deleted a nonsense comment I had made especially for this test). This effectively gives readers the absolute power of censorship. In other words the reader can say “I don’t like you saying that, and I don’t want anyone else to read it, so SHUT UP!” … comment deleted.

“SHUT UP!” has been a common tactic for lefties over many years. They have developed many ways of saying it. Say or write something they don’t want anyone else to hear (can’t have people hearing all views and making their own minds up can we now) and they scream “Racist!”, “Nazi!, “Fascist!”, “Islamophobe!”, “Sexist!” … and numerous other words that all come down to saying the same thing: “SHUT UP!”. Ask an awkward question and they say “Shut up!”, point out an inconsistency – “Shut up”, why are we in the EU – “Shut up!” … and on and on it goes. They KNOW they have no answers that would be acceptable to the British people so away they go: “Shut Up!”.

The video linked to below says it all far better than I can. It is an American speaking – mostly about America – and there’s much in the detail that we can quibble with; however, just listen to the basic process being described, apply it to what goes on in this country from your own experience, and it will immediately strike a chord with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWHgUE9AD4s

So, what’s all this got to do with a story in our local Wigan newspaper? First thing you must do is go to the above newspaper story link, then work your way through the comments one page at a time. Don’t bother reading the comments (yet) – just go through a page at a time – all the pages – and note the comment deletions. Several consecutive whole pages of deletions in one case – five or six pages (that particular episode was for just one comment of mine – he kept deleting it, I kept re-posting. Several hours of doing nothing else). Be patient and work your way through to the end – not reading, but just noting the deletions. You’re not losing anything because the entire conversation follows shortly in easily readable form (I’m typing them all out). The reason I want you to do that is so that you can see “SHUT UP!” in action.

Well I for one will NOT shut up. I have things to say – I’ll say them. I have questions to ask – I’ll ask them. Shut me up by deleting my writing – I’ll write it again. They don’t want to have to answer our questions and explain our observations – because they daren’t – so look – “JUST SHUT UP!”. And this isn’t just the SWP/UAF/Searchlight/HnotH etc – it extends right through our society from top to bottom and side to side, it takes in politics, the media, the entire Political Correctness culture.

So no, I wont shut up. What are you going to do about it pal? I’ve had enough of Shut Uppery.

And do note that it was NOT the Wigan Today editorial team that did this – it was leftard readers. They know they can’t stop us speaking, but that’s not really their intention: their intention is to stop ordinary people in large numbers from hearing. Oh no – dangerous. Good Lord – people might start making their own minds up if they could hear what non-leftards had to say, and making their minds up in ways the leftards don’t like. Get enough people doing that and voting behaviour might change, and THEN where are the leftards? Some readers – and I am inclined to believe this myself because of the pattern of events (described shortly) think Elliot Brown was the – or at least a – major deleter. Anyhow, read and make your own minds up. I have all that follows in screengrab form (for legal back-up if necessary), but all the deletions would make it to confusing to follow so for this post I’ve typed it out.

We were comprehensively defeated in this exchange – we won every battle, reached a satisfactory conclusion, but Shut-uppery won the war. There are lessons to be learned here. Please: take all the dreary time it takes to read the entire conversation here:

http://sirhenrymorgan.blogspot.com/2009/04/shut-uppery-in-action.html

Please go read it all, and then email me with any insights you might have regarding lessons. You’ll be surprised at how even trivial stuff gets deleted just to break up the thread.

The “Sir Henry Morgan” website is a just a site I use to park stuff.

The version of the conversation posted here is heavily edited down from nearly a week’s worth of conversation. It makes it look like we might have won – but we didn’t – “SHUT UP” won – by first diverting the thread away from discussion of the primary subject into politics and then into discussion of censorship. Essentially we were out-lasted because WE had a time limit to maintain public interest, but Shut-uppery didn’t. Insights – PLEASE!

COMMENTS; AND SOME COMMENTARY ON THOSE COMMENTS (any correction of typos, and any emphases, are mine). I have the original screengrabs for everything here. The actual conversation was spread over almost an entire week.

Comment 1 – Thejones DELETED
Why is the race of the perpetrators shown in the article?

Comment 2 – sickofitall DELETED
Thejones.
Simple, because it is only a racist attack if the perpetrators are white! Let’s see how long this stays on before the politically correct remove my reply.

Comment 3 – Thejones
My point (?concern) actually lies in the realm of fair 'equivalence'. My feelings are that it should ALWAYS be revealed or NEVER. For the record the perpetrators of this attack (which I condemn unreservedly) have not yet been charged with a 'race hate' crime so perhaps a little...premature? I have truly only just started to examine these things with a more critical eye in recent times especially with an eye on where to cast my vote in the EU elections (and NO, I have NEVER voted for the BNP and frankly, my inclination is to vote for Cameron but I'm not happy there either!).I am assuming your thesis can be proven? Ref free expression being 'moderated' away I have experience within this very journal of just such matters. Too complex to explain. I gave up with my repeated complaints to the editor. Hello by the way.

Comment 4 – Morgan DELETED
Like, for instance, neither this paper nor Peter Franzen saw fit to mention that though this wasn’t the case for all the protesters – ALL of those that attacked the four BNP members and their Landrover in Leigh three weeks ago with claw hammers (using the claw bit to hit Tony Ward in the head) and axes were Asian. ALL!Nobody in the BNP thinks these were peaceful Hindus; and we think such a cowardly attack would be beneath the warrior Sikhs; and thinking it might have been Buddhists is beyond a joke. What Asians does that leave? Leigh “tykes” Peter?
Also not reported was that as Tony Ward stumbled away half blinded after the attack, the attacker actually stalked him to dish out more. Only prompt action by a horrified conscientious police officer prevented a possible tragedy. Also not reported was the action of a Leyther in stepping forward to help the four men under attack. But when two white teenage girls racially abuse an immigrant – every gory detail is reported in the press, right down to the appearance of the perpetrators. Report all, or report none. But all we get is “Whitey did it”.

Comment 5 – C.Mather DELETED
The police seem to be taking this attack a lot more seriously than the hammer attack on a BNP member “because of his political viewpoint” perpetrated by a black man three weeks ago which could have resulted in his death. Punching anyone in the face is to be condemned, but a few slaps by a teenage girl hardly compares with an attack with a claw hammer. So a “crime” against an ethnic minority is more serious than attempted murder with a hammer on someone with whom you disagree? I do not condone ANY violence to anyone but the police do not take violence against us as seriously as when it is the other way round. I suppose it helps the police to keep up their tally of “racial” incidents and ticks a few more boxes and no doubt justify Elliot’s job. We really have sunk to the depths in this country.
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About here, after comment 5, I sent an email to Elliot Brown informing him of the fact of this debate that looked to me like it might get interesting. I was already hoping that Peter Franzen might involve himself in the debate, to the amusement of all, and further hoped that knowledge of what was going on here might tempt Elliot into the fray. No such luck: Peter is probably still feeling burned from his last encounter with ordinary Wigan people, as most likely, is Elliot (my God he was stupid wasn’t he!) after his last encounter. However, very shortly after that email to Elliot, the deletions started. Coincidence? You can decide that for yourselves – but you already know what he’s like.
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Comment 10 – Thejones
With all due respect to whomever, would you please just state why the farce of the deletions is occurring? At least state what the boundary for the debate IS, if nothing else. Who is Elliot?

Comment 12 – Morgan DELETED
Thejones
Elliot is Elliot Brown, Wigan and Leigh Hate Crime Coordinator.E-mail:
commsafety@wigan.gov.uk
He introduced himself to us on these pages a year or so ago. Wonder if his literacy has improved since then?

18 – sickoffitall
Why ask for readers to comment ??? Then when comments don’t meet with the "Mantra" of Political Correctness you erase them ??? I always thought that once we had free speech here, obviously not, as the "Stazi" decide on another part of our freedom's we are not allowed, why don’t we all just go the whole way and have the "Thought Police" come along and arrest anyone who has anything in their mind that goes against the "NuLiebour" way of thinking !!! Welcome to the EUSSR.....I await my impeding arrest
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The deletions were coming thick and fast now, and I missed those two grabs because I took time to write the above comment of my own, interrupting what had by now become a case of screengrabbing every comment as it appeared … before it was deleted. I am reasonably confident that at least at this early stage of the comment thread, and possibly for many of the later deletions, Elliot was the deleter. I sent him an email to try and tempt him into the conversation, but instead of that, the deletions started. The servers will show if I’m correct, if he chooses to take further action over that allegation. Bring it on Elliot. There is no such thing as anonymity on the internet.
Later, I was asked to post the deleted comments on the Wigan Patriot site for the benefit of those who had missed the earlier comments before the deletions started. This I did, but while doing it I missed out several more comments before they were deleted.
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21 – Sickoffitall DELETED
Notice how the reports always point out that a racist attack is committed by a person or persons of white origin ; if the other way around the attackers’ colour is NEVER mentioned … WHY? (honest question).
Again, I will see how long it takes before this comment is removed.

25 – Leviticus DELETED
PC McAllion stated “People cannot be allowed to get away with racism”. So will he be taking steps to tackle the racist Black Police Associatione whose constitution does not allow whites to become full members? Therefore denying them equal voting rights etc. Is that not discriminating because of race? And it has to be said – if the boot was on the other foot and two black lads/girls had attacked a white lad/girl would this be as vigorously investigated? I note the lack of comment from the former councillor from Golborne here. Talking of former councillors does anybody know what sentence ex-councillor Joe “The Paedo” Shaw was given this week?

26 – Morgan DELETED
WW and Sickoffitall
The bounds of this debate seem to be set by four criteria:
1 Darkie is utterly wonderful in all respects
2 Whitey is utterly despicable in every respect
3 Charles Mather and ...
4 ... I are both known BNPers.
An entirely black and white (unintentional, but I know of no other words to describe this) view of this kind of topic, with no room for shades of grey.
Oh – and a complete inability on the part of the Cretin Deleter to answer any of the questions raised. Just shut down all comment in case ordinary people see it, and start arriving at conclusions of their own. Can’t answer the message – kill it; or attempt to kill the messenger with a claw hammer.
Well Cretin Deleter – word in Labour and Tory circles now is that you have to engage with the BNP, argue with them (us, in my case) or lose the public by default because they are getting the message anyway via the interwebbythingy. So – debate? Or suppression like the once East Germany? And look what happened there …

27 – Wandering Wiganer
I can't speak for others, but i wasn't even looking in the general direction of the 'R' word. This is an extremely sensitive subject, and therefore the event that initiated this crime must be clearly identified to avoid misleading the public. I hope justice is done regardless.

30 – Morgan DELETED
Leviticus – I already told him that but was deleted. I explained the criteria for debate/deletion in my above deleted comment. One of them is that I’m a known BNPer. My words must not be listened to or read in case I pollute the minds of the general public. When censors act like this, they are not taking away my right to speak, they are taking away your right to hear and make your own mind up.

34 – Morgan DELETED
WEP don’t need to investigate – they know. It was my description of events three weeks ago when Tony Ward had his head opened up by a claw hammer-wielding racist Asian. An entirely accurate description accompanied by my question: why was this spat between a couple of teenage girls being treated as a race hate crime when that one wasn’t?

37 – Morgan DELETED
There is an additional factor to these deletions: they started very shortly after I emailed Elliot Brown giving details of this conversation in an attempt to draw him into this debate. I thought that as this sort of thing is his job, and as he is well paid for it with YOUR money, then he really should be here ripping me a new hole as he explained why I was wrong, and in the process winning the public over to his point of view.
So – intelligent enough to be a council officer on a salary I could only dream of (and my dreams are not that ambitious), but not intelligent enough to engage in debate with a thick knuckledragging racis fascist nazi. He loses by default – a “no show”.
Instead, he set about suppressing all debate.

38 – Wandering Wiganer
My comments were based around the syntax of the writer, not so much around the content. By not clearly stating a crucial part of this attack (the cause of the initial argument between the 2 parties), doubt has been cast as to whether the headline is correct and has caused an avoidable debate. I simply require clarification on this matter.

39 – Britishlady DELETED
“ ,,, why was this spat between a couple of teenage girls being treated as a race hate crime when that one wasn’t?”. Well said Morgan.
Come on, any answers? Anyone? Racism cuts both ways except if you’re white.
Watch me be deleted again.

48 – Socialist 1
Tiocfaidh ar la

53 – celedrialjoy DELETED
Oh dear, it seems I’ve joined the ranks of the deleted.
To the deleter: just because it’s easy to delete people’s thoughts on this website, it does not mean you can silence them!
You have by your actions made more people curious about what others have been saying on this subject. Tell me – are YOU a member of the BNP because you are doing a very good recruitment job for them.

54 – Socialist 1
The workers united will never be defeated, anti fascists united will never be defeated.

58 – Socialist 1
ha ha you lot are pathetic

60 – celedrialjoy
Tell the truth Mr deleter, youre just a lonely little person sat there feeling rather godly because you are able to hide behind a computer screen and delete without confrontation. You know there are people in the real world who can help you with your problems. Oh and by the way I have just visited the Wigan Patriot (for the first time) But it wont be the last! wonder how many more on these pages have visited the Patriots website because of you?

62 – Wandering Wiganer
Hi Socialist,What are your views on this story? After reading it, I am concerned that a label is being put on these people although it is not clear (or certainly hasn't been presented to the readers clearly) what caused this incident in the first place. No doubt elements of the R word were involved, and should be dealt with accordingly, but was this the issue that started the argument between the wanted party and the victim, or something else? This, I feel, is crucial. I know I can rely on some form of reasonable debate on this.

64 – Socialist 1
I don’t talk to Nazis

67 – Wandering Wiganer
Socialist - Nothing I have written on this thread, or any other for that matter, has been about anything the other people on here are talking about. I do not share any of their views, other than I agree with them that someone should not be deleting posts on this subject as it is confusing other viewers (you are the prime example, assuming that I am in league with others here). I am here as an individual, I could not care less about other people's political views. I SIMPLY WANT CLARIFICATION ON THIS STORY, and hoped people could see my point. You've disappointed me.

68 – Socialist 1
Was I talking to you?

69 – Wandering Wiganer
No one else asked you a question.

70 – Britishlady DELETED
Why does this spat between teenage girls receive more attention and newsprint than the attack by an Asian on a white person with a claw hammer? Please explain.

71 - celedrialjoy DELETED
It is NEW-liabour that are the racists

73 – Socialist 1
britishlady' your views are vile

76 – Britishlady
Why does this spat between teenage girls receive more attention and newsprint than the attack by an Asian on a white person with a claw hammer? Please explain.
A claw hammer is more lethal and dangerous surely?
Asking this question makes a person VILE?

77 – Socialist 1
'britishlady' your views on here over a considerable amount of time are vile. your views make decent people want to throw up.

81 – Socialist 1
am i bovvered?

82 – Socialist 1
celedrialjoy me thinks you tell porkie pies

83 – Morgan DELETED
To all those who requested I do a quick copy of the early comments here to get an idea of what all these deletions are about – it’s now up and is available on:
http://www.wiganpatriot.bogspot.com
As this gets deleted I’ll keep re-posting until I’m confident those interested have seen it. I’ll know this from the comments coming back from it onto here.

85 – Socialist 1
its a shame NAZIS keep coming on here

86 – Morgan
It's a shame censors keep coming on here. A censor is someone who thinks he knows better than you what you should know in order to avoid the risk of you making your own mind about something.

87 – Morgan
Define your terms, Socialist1 - what is a NAZI?Or aren't you that clever? Any good with a hammer?

88 – Morgan
As I recall from my history books, a NAZI was a kind of person who imposed censorship.

89 – Socialist 1
NAZI SCUM you know who you are

90 – Socialist 1
i dont talk to NAZI SCUM

92 – Morgan
And in case it passed you by - you already did.

93 – Socialist 1
YOU KNOW YOUR NAME THEN

94 – Morgan
By your own mysterious - known only to you - criteria/definition for/of NAZI SCUM, that is

98 – Socialist 1
paranoid ha ha your unbelievable with the sh@te you spout be gone DEVIL be gone!

99 – Morgan
Socialist1Comment 93 - you've yet again done what you said you never do.
Oh - and comment 98

108 – Socialist 1
workers united will NEVER be defeated.

109 – Whatnicknameisnotinusethen?
If worthwhile debate and query cannot be used on here because of the fascist nazi loony left scum’s puerile censorship then how about we start their game of deleting everything? Socialist1, you are a troll. Anyway, back to the time line of what happened in this text..."... involved in a argument with two teenage girls, one of whom turned violent and punched her in the face four or five times. The victim *WAS* then racially abused and attacked again before the pair got off the bus in Bickershaw just after the Tamar pub." So, the racial slurs occurred AFTER the victims face was punched up?? In my book physical pain and damage is worse than any mouthing off two chav slags. Methinks police need to get issues in order.

110 – Whatnicknameisnotinusethen?
Socialist1.. Do you have a job? I fear we cannot attack what doesn't exist. You write like an 11yr old troll.Workers united indeed. At least us workers, WORK! Or, more to the point. Those who have worked, done so over their working lifetimes. Did you know the Labour party's first name was the "Nationalists". Did you know Keir Hardy was an ardent patriot who fought to keep the cheap foreign labourers out of our door? Or are you so thick it won't sink in.

111 – Whatnicknameisnotinusethen?
Hey, while I'm on one. I've just looked up the Tamar pub. Its near Leigh. Its practically in the middle of nowhere. Now what percentage of the populace makes up 16 yr old females who live within that bus stop catchment area?The cops cannot use the local database to do a couple of house calls for ID purposes? I smell a rat here. Or, as I said before, they haven't the wit to follow a piece of string.

112 – Thejones
Morning all (for ME anyhow!).I've just caught up on the thread and have just been to Wigan blog patriot, thank you kindly I will keep a close eye on that one too from now on (if only the discussion had been allowed I wouldn't have known, that’s what I meant by suppression of debate being counter-productive).

113 – Morgan DELETED
Nickname – that is a VERY interesting comment.
That’s where we had our BNP meeting Thursday night. I’m not letting any secrets out here because Myra Hindley’s (one of the Leigh Labour councillors) husband was downstairs in the bar gobbing off to anyone who would listen that the nazi skinheaded thick BNP fascist racist thugs were upstairs. He didn’t have a gang of hammer wielding Asian thugs to hand so he didn’t try to disrupt us. Sensible. Not very brave – but sensible.
And no, we didn’t have any 16 yr-old girls at our meeting (a very good meeting it was too, as described by Dr Mather on the Wigan Patriot blog – much as I imagine the meetings of the very early Labour party were, when it was still a nationalist party whose leader, Keir Hardie, was “opposed to immigration as it tends to depress the wages of the working man”)
I suspect the police should be investigating the so-called “victim” with a possibility of charges for wasting police time.

116 – celedrialjoy
Well it would seem that the deleter’s actions have been counter productive.All I wanted to do was read a story that had been put out about a fight between three girls! But of course once I saw the deleter had been at work again I couldn’t resist. But I did glean information about the Patriot website and I found it quite interesting, so thanks.

121 – ytrewq DELETED
Thejones
Ref Mr Elliot. I can’t for the life of me be bothered doing any research into him. From comments posted three things spring to mind which may describe him:
1. Large mouth.
2. Long tongue
3. No b***s
I’m prepared to be persuade otherwise, so if anyone has anything positive to say about him, feel free to enlighten me.
I’m timing how long this post lasts.

123 – thejones DELETED
Ytrewq
Bizarrely enough, because of censorship on this comment thread yesterday, I discovered a website there (I’m many thousands of miles away), the “Wigan Patriot”, which had, in fact, recorded that comment thread and detailed the efforts of censorship at that time. It was rather good.

126 – sickoffitall
It seem's Mr "Stalin" has stopped me from posting comments as well !

127 – G.Chadwick
Morgan, do you think there is an ulterior motive by the reporter regarding this particular alleged "race hate incident? Especially as this report comes to our attention a week after it had supposedly happened and which interestingly coincides with reports coming out regarding Thursday evenings proceedings in Leigh, if you know what I mean?

128 – Morgan DELETED
Yes Gary, I do.
I think they are trying to link BNP activity with “Race Hate” crime. We had a meeting right where, next day, this incident was reported to have taken place.
You know the sort of argument – it goes like this … the activities of the BNP stirred up hate in two immature young girls … they couldn’t help it … it’s the BNP’s fault … ban them.
That’s assuming the whole alleged incident wasn’t in fact a set-up by the leftards. Would be good to learn the histories of these three girls. Are they long-time friends (or rivals)? Does any of the three have any connection with the Labour party? Or any others of the people with an irrational hatred towards the BNP.
But it does look to me like some sort of set-up. Remember – Myra Hindley’s husband was downstairs in the bar spouting of to anyone and everyone about the nazi skinheaded BNP fascist racist knuckle-dragging bootboys being upstairs. And we already know that there are concerted efforts to deny us venues for meetings.
Where was our meeting Thursday? Where was this offence reported to have taken place Friday?
I’m not normally given to conspiracy theories, but in this case …..

131 – thejones
anthony wareing
Your point may have merit and no, it is not acceptable to abuse or assault ANYONE (but I took the view right at the start, now deleted, that either the race of the perpetrators and victims should be revealed in EVERY case or NOT AT ALL).However, there are now grounds to doubt whether the story is about the three girls at all and if not then what is the motive? (and no, I am not now, nor ever have been a member, of the bnp and I'm not an activist of any sort etc etc) which then requires an ongoing debate as to the degree of honesty/moral courage exhibited by any so called free press, not just THIS one. I am quite convinced that the ideology this media represents will find the honest and genuine expression of ideas wholly unacceptable and COMPLETELY remove all evidence that we even had this discussion

134 – Anthony wareing
"a young woman can be abused and attacked JUST because of the colour of her skin".Is there any proof that this is true?If she was overweight & they mentioned this to her, would the attack have been size-ist (however you spell that) "JUST because of the size of her body"?I feel sorry for the 19 year old, because everyone (including me) seems to be on the side of the two 16 year olds, I don't know what went on so I can't really comment on the attack, maybe she was equally to blame, maybe she's 100% a victim, unfortunately the police & the media have decided to use her attack for their own ends which makes other people naturally take the opposite viewpoint, regardless of the actual events, like I said before its not about her anymore it's just politics. If it wasn't for George Orwell we'd be further along the road to big brother & the thought police than we are now, but we still have to be on our guard, & censorship is the one of their weapons.

139 – Morgan
Given the tactics that it has recently been discovered are being used by the Labour party against the Tories (see today's Times and News of the World), what on Earth can we expect Labour to be using against the BNP? This alleged bus incident might be only the beginning .. what will be next?Hammer attack, alleged racist incident they are apparently trying to link to the BNP, ... what next? Given the stories coming out of Downing Street today, wouldn't put anything at all past them.

141 – Morgan
A race hate attack? Hmmmm - we've all been young haven't we. Don't teenage girls have spats? Don't they hold grudges (oh boy - do they ever)? Don't they lash out at each other - physically and verbally - and with the most stinging words they can think of at the time? And how much physical damage does a girlie hit do (I have felt it from my wife - they really don't know how to hit properly)? And what's it all usually over? Yup - boys. And all this has been conflated into a suggested race hate attack, apparently - on the face of it - as a way to attack the BNP. Unfortunately for Labour - the timings are all wrong when looked at closely.How much of your money is that constable being paid - and the "race hate" hierarchy he answers to? YOUR money remember.

142 – Britishlady DELETED
Labour is mobilizing at local level wherever there is a sign of heavy BNP activity. National funding has been provided for “Stop the BNP2 leaflets, and Labour uses a different slogan – “Fairness not Fear” rather than its national theme of “Winning the Fight for Britain’s Future”.
It is also linking up with anti-fascist groups such as Searchlight and sending anti-BNP battlebuses into areas targeted by the group.
So can we expect more of what happened in Leigh 13/03/2009 when Tony Ward was attacked by a gang of thugs hiding behind the title of SWP, Searchlight, etc – all funded and supported by this Labour government.?
Is this what this country has been reduced to? Government backed thugs bussed in like flying pickets to oppress the people and a legitimate, legal, political party, by violent means?
The full list of Searchlight and SWP supporters from all parties (including David Cameron) is listed on the BNP website – a frightening list of people opposed to democracy.
The people must use their vote before it is too late.

143 – thejones
BritishladyIndeed and in my case I really have never been (hitherto) a 'politically driven' individual BUT I have had a sense if 'unease' in the back of my mind for many years without being able to articulate this unease.Then, having had enough of the U.K. for a number of reasons I left and at this point have no intention of ever returning. To get to my point, having been away for a few years I returned and was quite stunned at the level of change that I saw and was quite frightened for the longer term (I would add that the July 7 bombers was a turning point for me ) given, in my own case, that almost my entire family live in Britain (going back to approximately the ice-age!). I even saw fit to resolve to resist the change I mention above as best I could. The only political party that seems to address the concerns I allude to ARE the BNP. At this point I need to add that I am not, in any way, a 'radical' and am most certainly not a thug or knuckle-dragger, in fact, I couldn't be more diametrically evolved and have discovered very very many who are similar and I HAVE made a point of making myself aware of what’s going on.This being the case the responses that I see from various quarters to what is a wholly legal political party is, at best, amusing and at worst dangerous in principle.(and in FACT when hammers are used). There are, undoubtedly, very worrying forces at work in the U.K. and I truly don't see it ending peacefully. So to second your point it indeed is more important for people to vote now than in recent decades because time really is getting short at this point.

144 – Leviticus
thanks britishlady, we all know about the so called 'respectable' searchlight organisation and when you turn the spotlight onto the searchlight they aren't as respectable as they are purported to be no doubt the anti free speech brigade will delete this but if anybody is in any doubt they should look here : www.searchlightexposed.com

145 – Britishlady DELETED
I would ask why so many “Race Attacks” get so much press coverage yet others receive practically none, an example being the murder of Kris Donald. I bet 90% of you have never heard of this young man – it never got much publicity.
Google – Kris Donald – and read about just one of hundreds of ignored murders.
The BNP is labeled “Far Right” because it tells the truth, and the powers-that-be do not want the truth told.
Make your own mind up.

147 – Leviticus
thejones
'You do realise don't you Britishlady that this entire comment thread will be 'expunged' from the record as soon as this journals editorial staff get back to work? One of those disturbing features I've noted.'
One can almost see them now, in the office saying 'oh my god they are speaking the truth, quick delete all comments because we cannot allow it to happen' because that is effectively what they are doing when they delete all posts and close the debate because they don't agree with what is being said. It makes you wonder what problem they have with the truth and freedom of speech

148 – thejones
Britishlady
Kriss Donald indeed. The reading of the events are too horrific to contemplate for any length of time. A clear example of a race hate crime....BURIED.....Stephen Laurence. Tragic yes. To be condemned yes. Perpetrators not brought to satisfactory justice, unfortunately not. But to elevate the case to one of sainthood and then do a Witchfinder General on almost every institution of state whilst ignoring the horror of Kriss Donald....very wrong. The balance sheet has yet to be put right.
leviticus
Indeed, would be nice to have a camera on the wall in the office (mind you, as Stalinist as they are it's perfectly possible that they DO just to keep an eye on the staff!?)Make yourself familiar with Professor Noam Chomsky: 'They will either ignore you, shoot you or assassinate your character (common one that, just ask messrs Cameron and Osborne)'The first seems to be firmly in operation with commentators here.

149 – sickoffitall
Free speech disappeared along with freedom of thought etc when the "NuLiabour" regime came to power and made it a crime to be patriotic to your country (ie Britain), the very word "Patriotism" sends the hand wringing Leftie "Traitor's" in Troughminster and its blind followers into a wild frenzy, and will make every effort possible to stifle anything that goes against the Mantra of "Nuliabour"!Anyone who is the slightest Patriotic must be SILENCED at any cost.

151 - Britishlady DELETED
Searchlight is gross. Take a look at SWP communist hypocrite Weyman Bennet.
Weyman Bennet, joint national secretary of UAF, recently wrote an article on the BNP’s good chance of success at the European Elections in June. Bennet declared: “The British National Party is aiming to win seats in the European parliament in June. The Nazis believe they have the wind in their sails following the walkouts at the Lindsey oil refinery”
Typically, the article is full of smears, for example making the claim that party chairman Nick Griffin has been a member of “Nazi organizations for three decades”. If they consider the BNP as such, then maybe a political lieracy course would be beneficial.
Bennet also describes the BNP as “Nazis” in eight out of the eighteen paragraphs, clearly a big fan of the Big Lie propaganda technique, which generally involves telling a very big lie, very often, until it is believed.
Nearly all the parties of various communist leanings will be aiming to stem the electorate’s tide of anger over the last six decades of national decline under the “mainstream” parties.
The double hypocrisy of the far left is startling: they do not even believe in democracy, admitting themselves that their goal of international socialism (and communism) cannot be achieved at the ballot box. For the time being they are content to fight a party that isn’t responsible for any of the mess we’re in, and the only party that offers any meaningful alternative.
In January, during the latest Israel Gaza conflict, Weekly Worker reported that Bennet was overheard saying: Jews “ should go back to where they came from … New York or wherever”.
Members of his far Left Socialist Workers Party were also chanting “We are Hezbollah” when protesting over Israel’s retaliation against the terrorist group in 2006.
It is indeed very strange that prominent members of the hardcore Left opposes virtually everything Israel does yet label the BNP as Nazis.

152 – Britishlady DELETED
The BNP has never held a protest against Israel defending its people and land. Maybe people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
It just shows what a cancer to this country these outfits are.

153 – Morgan DELETED
Britishlady – and everyone:
Imagine if it was BNPers caught doing this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1169642/fourteen-council-staff-suspended-circulating-anti-semitic-joke-email.html

154 – Socialist 1
The workers united will never be defeated

155 – Lomra Greener
Let me explain the definition of socialism to you.Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under socialism, it's the other way round.Now get your self all excited while you work that out.

158 – Socialist 1
i see nazis have appeared yet again

159 – Lomra Greener
S1, you call yourself a socialist, NAZI is a contraction of national socialist (as spelled in German).I see you really are a socialist, as defined above and by the failed USSR. Your attitude seems to be ‘you can have any opinion you want, or say what you want, so long as it is exactly what I want it to be’.

162 – Socialist 1
What is the matter. Do you not like the word Nazi? Perhaps Scum should be attached to it?

163 – celedrialjoy
The thing that is really scary is the number of high ranking politicians who back these thugs David Cameron for one. If the leader of one of the main political parties has put his name to backing these criminals just how far are the main parties prepared to go to protect their places at the trough.

164 – Morgan
Come on then S1 - educate us.Define 'Nazi'.Translated from the original German it comes out as "National Socialist German Workers Party". But what do YOU mean by it?

167 – sickoffitall
I'm afraid the old mantra of name calling ie "Nazi" has worn very thin with the people of Britain, take a look at the latest media headlines and listen to the National news on tv and radio, the Harpies in power have done enough of that to make the population sit up and realise that name calling / spin / lies and treachery are the only thing these clowns have left in their armoury, NOTHING they say or do now will have any affect whatsoever to make the populous change their minds to how slippery and slimy these overpaid self serving parasites in "Troughminster" will go to cling on to their jobs, to be quite honest, firing off the "Nazi" word non stop at someone only shows that it's the desperation that certain people will go to (ie the Liarbour party etc) knowing they are "Washed up".

168- Socialist 1
I think NAZI SCUM is enough said. If the hat fits...

170 – Morgan
All well and good S1, but if we don't know what Nazi means you may as well be shouting Squibbledork Scum at us for all the sense it makes. What does it MEAN? Do explain to stupid unknowing us.

172 – Morgan
We ignoramuses haven't had the privelege of your extensive in-depth Higher Education in political philosophy. So please, tell us: what exactly does Nazi mean?

173 – Morgan
You there S1? We are waiting here with bated breath for you to explain to us your insights and understanding of the concept of Nazi (Scum).You there S1? S1? Come in S1.

179 – Morgan
Anyway, let's get back on topic shall we? Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men) injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"? The definition of a "race hate crime" is that the victim, or someone else, perceives it to be racist. Well I for one perceive the Leigh hammer attack to be racist. By definition that makes it racist - Asian on White.

181 – sickoffitall
Correct, but we are not allowed to comment on ANYTHING "Non White" WHY ???

183 – sickoffitall
This was why this debate started.

185 – Morgan
Sickofitall
That is a big big question. Perhaps Ell ...er ... S1 might care to answer it?

186 – Morgan
????? S1 ... are you ... er ... mentally disturbed?

188 – sickoffitall
Will I now be called "Nazi scum" purely because i have asked a legitimate question that i'm SURE lot's of reader's to this site are still wanting to know?

193 – Morgan
Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"?

194 – sickoffitall
Morgan, i'm afraid that the answer to that question (193) will never be allowed to be published.

198 – Socialist 1
I have just thrown my evening meal up!

200 – Socialist 1
I am sure the Wigan people will rally around. They are intelligent people up there. They always come out for us.
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Damn!! I missed a trick there. Read that again. Socialist 1 is NOT a Wiganer, and not even a Northerner. “ … up there …” – so he comes in from down south and disrupts our debate here in Wigan. Now that I have a valid reason for doing so, I’m going to email the editor on Monday and see if I can’t get this little troll banned from commenting and banned from deleting. It isn’t just this thread – he pops up on loads of threads and disrupts. Southerners interfering in Northern concerns. So going back over these threads in detail is useful after all – learned new hard information there. Wonder how many other local newspapers he does it to? Is he paid by someone – a Union, Labour party – whatever – to do this as a full-time job: disrupt inconvenient comment threads wherever he finds them? Anyone out there with the on-line investigatory skills to find out? If so – please get cracking on it. The Johnston Press is a big organization and has local newspapers all over the country – register for commenting in one and you are registered for commenting (and deleting) in all. I already know this from experience of commenting in other local papers belonging to Johnston. I know where to get a list of all of the group’s papers … Anyone care to take the job on? I’ve a few ideas how to get started. Email me. I don’t have the time to get into it right now, with the June election coming up – lots to do. I would guess that if he is doing this systematically across the group, then any one editor can remove his rights from right across the network – including stopping him re-registering with a new throwaway Hotmail account and username. Yes – I know that one – I’ve had five different accounts and usernames with the Guardian: I keep getting banned. Wonder why hahahahaha?
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202 – Morgan
S1 - comment 198 ... now eat it up again like the good doggie you are.

205 – Morgan
S1
Was I Nazi Scum for all those years when I was a member of the Labour party? Did I just magically become one when I left? Or did I magically become one when I joined the BNP? Trying to work out what Nazi Scum is. Because I think I'm the same bloke as I was at those times.

209 – Socialist 1
Decent people know what you are about. You crawl from under your stones and blame others. it has happened throughout history. You spy a chance to spread your vileness discrimination. As i said in a past post.BE GONE!!!!!

211 – Morgan
We will be gone S1 - in June to Brussels, and six-seven years from now, to Downing Street.

215 – Morgan
National SOCIALIST German WORKERS PARTY.

217 – Socialist 1
ha ha thats a bit rich bl! this from a party that wants to annihilate people,has politics of hate,john laidlaw who went on a shooting spree on the underground and wanted to kill black people? ring any bells?

219 – Socialist 1
robert Cottage who was 3 times bnp candidate, jailed in 2007 for stockpiling chemicals,bomb making equipment and a rocket launcher?

221 – Socialist 1
David Copeland who NAIL BOMBED a London pub and KILLED 3 people?

222 – Britishlady
WHY WHY WHY
Why is a spat between three teenage girls a "racist hate crime" because a white girl lashed out and a non-white got hit, yet an attack by an Asian with a hammer (a gang of some 30 Asians actually, attacking four white men)injuring a white man with scars he'll never lose not a "race hate crime"? TOO difficult to answer ? Or do you have none.....

223 – Morgan
Laidlaw + Cottage + Copeland
Total Deaths - three
Injured - several tens
Asian underground/bus bombers on 7/7/05
Total deaths - 52
Injured - several hundred.

224 – sickoffitall
Tony Bliar / Gordon Brown 1997 - 2009.....Millions of honest decent hardworking men,women and children.....lives ruined.

225 – Morgan
Too imprecise there - MUSLIM underground/bus bombers

238 – Morgan
Has S1 actually got a mind? Or is it just a spur off some collective hive mind?

244 – Morgan
I want to give some credit to the editorial team on Wigan Today.I started today expecting the entire thread to be removed as if it never existed, and have been pleasantly surprised. Thank you Mr Editor sir - I'll still be blogging this because of all the user-deletions ... but I wont be taking a poke at you.

245 – celedrialjoy
Just been catching up on the comments, so far S1 is on a massive losing streak in getting his point across, actually its hard to see through his manic posts to see what his point is! From what I can make out anyone who disagrees with anything he says is a racist/nazi!!!!Well correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was the nazis that did not allow free speech or debate. Come on S1, you cannot go around saying that an attack on a coloured girl by a white girl IS racist, and an attack on four white men by 30+ Asians in Leigh isn’t! If you are going to label people racists then at least start from an even point of view.

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I think it’s pretty well established now that S1 is down South somewhere, whereas we know Elliot is here in Wigan. Established the rough location (South) of S1 earlier on through a slip of his tongue.
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248 – Socialist 1
all this thinking morgan its not good for you. be gone!

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Here’s a blunt honest assessment – S1 is far far cleverer than we give him credit for … well, he at least has a Robber’s Dog cunning anyway, as thejones put it earlier, which can be even more effective for reasons I wont divulge to avoid giving him an advantage … and he has quite clearly won this entire exchange – the entire thread. Lost every battle, but quite categorically won the war. It is painful for me to say that – but if our Party’s claim to blunt honesty is to be anything more than a sharp soundbite, we have to apply it to ourselves individually too. I consider we lost this one and we have lessons to learn for future comment wars, of which there will undoubtedly be many, and in many places not just Wigan Today. Politics isn’t ending any time soon.
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250 – Morgan
Apparently, bus stops and telephone boxes are hot spots for racist incidents.How much does Wigan Council Tax payers pay Elliot?

257 – Socialist 1
tell you what, i dont really want anymore contact with nazi scum, your views are vile, i will come on here and keep giving the facts out to decent people, as i have said before, BE GONE you make me puke!!!

260 – Socialist 1
you also presume im a man, your sexist too! yuk!

262 – Morgan
S1 - I'd never accuse you of being a MAN!

269 – Leviticus
post 257 socialist1,14/04/2009 22:31:53 as i thought, tell you what, i dont really want anymore contact with nazi scum, your views are vile, i will come on here and keep giving the facts out to decent people, as i have said before, BE GONE you make me puke!!!
socialist 1
Or should i call you elliot? What facts are they? All i can see coming from you is puerile insults and no attempt to debate anything with facts. Is that because your noo labour paymasters have forbidden you to comment after your outrageous 'inbred' slurs about the people of this town?

283 – Socialist 1
dosent take much to wind up a NAZI.
NAZI SCUM sums it up sooooooo perfectly

292 – Morgan DELETED
Are these people capable of ever learning? All deleted posts from the past few pages have said the same thing. This constant re-posting is because this is a freedom of speech issue: not my freedom to speak, but others' to listen.
This is American - but decribes exactly what's happening here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWHgUE9AD4s
... as S1 goes rooting through its toolbox for a suitable accessory to wear/carry to a political meeting ... analyse this picture. Carefully note the numbers accompanying each date, and read in chronological order (sorry about the multi-syllable words S1) and think of the future.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oOZT0MnFY50/SeV-fhlG8MI/AAAAAAAAAzY/ovSeNnwPpAE/s1600-h/weyman-vote.jpg
Now posted on the Wigan Patriot blog - with conventional graphs of the same data.
http://www.wiganpatriot.blogspot.com/
People notice you know - it's not us that wants to stop ordinary folk reading all points of view so they can make their own minds up - it's the leftards that do that. People then want all the more to know what WE are saying. They already know what YOU are saying because they've been getting nothing else for years. Forbidden fruit always tastes sweeter
Had you left the original post in place it would now be lost in the comment back-pages. By playing these games all you are doing is keeping it up front, which suits me - more people get to read it. That's the trouble with people like you: you are so ideologically hidebound that you don't think, you only feel (hate). Just not good enough in the modern world. If you want to win, you have to actually argue your point. You prefer censorship - whether with a keyboard or a hammer - all the same to you.
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That is not an exact rendition of comment 292. That’s because I had decided that I would re-post every deleted comment. I very soon learned that if a comment is exactly identical to a previous comment then the server filters pick up on it and class it as spam, and so block it. So to get the comment in again you have to make some small change or other, or add or take away, for it to be accepted. But a couple of comments from now you will see the start of a marathon session of the deleter taking this comment down, and me immediately putting it back up again – but with a slight change each time. A lot – some 49 – of changes happened before reaching this exact wording, so it’s not quite the original. I do have all the original screen grabs, comment by comment – but I don’t think you want to see the same thing 49. It all starts a couple of comments from now – and I won that particular battle of attrition. He gave up taking them down before I gave up re-posting them. 3 hours around midnight one night, then continued the following afternoon. I got it off to a fine art – it takes six-seven minutes to remove a comment, but I could get it back up in 15 seconds once I’d done it a couple of times. So, six to seven minutes up, 15 seconds down. Advantage to me. It starts soon.
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293 – Socialist 1
the futures RED

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The following comments were copies of 292 above – I put ‘em up, he took ‘em down, I put ‘em back up again – for several hours.
295, 296, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313. 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319. 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 337, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, at this point, a little extra conversation joined in, with me re-posting the above at various points interspersed in that conversation – ALL DELETED
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349 – Socialist 1
Tiocfaidh ar la!

350 – Morgan
Err - S1, according to the numbers OURS will, not yours. You've had yours and made a right mess of it.

359 – Leviticus
Tiocfaidh ar la - our day will come , the motto of the I.R.A. showing your true colours now Socialist 1,

360 – Socialist 1
ha ha im sure you know better than me.wooo wooo

361 – Morgan
Tiocfaidh ar la = Our day will come.Actually, it's been and gone in loads of places - and everywhere it went it made a tyrannical mess and the people were so happy once they 'persuaded' it to be gone.

365 – Morgan
Are these people capable of ever learning? All deleted posts from the past few pages have said the same thing. This constant re-posting is because this is a freedom of speech issue: not my freedom to speak, but others' to listen.This is American - but decribes exactly what's happening here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWHgUE9AD4s
... as S1 goes rooting through its toolbox for a suitable accessory to wear/carry to a political meeting ... analyse this picture. Carefully note the numbers accompanying each date, and read in chronological order (sorry about the multi-syllable words) and think of the future. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oOZT0MnFY50/SeV-fhlG8MI/AAAAAAAAAzY/ovSeNnwPpAE/s1600-h/weyman-vote.jpg
Now posted on the Wigan Patriot blog - with conventional graphs of the same data. http://www.wiganpatriot.blogspot.com/
Readers do notice you know - it's not us that wants to stop ordinary folk having access to all points of view so they can make their own minds up - it's the leftards that do that. People then want all the more to know what WE are saying. They already know what YOU are saying because they've been getting nothing else for years. Forbidden fruit always tastes sweeterHad you left the original post in place it would now be lost in the comment back-pages. By playing these games all you are doing is keeping it up front, which suits me - more people get to read it. That's the trouble with people like you: you are so ideologically hidebound that you don't think, you only feel (hate). Just not good enough in the modern world. If you want to win, you have to actually argue your point. You prefer censorship - whether with a keyboard or a hammer - all the same to you.
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That was the final re-post of the post/deletion sequence described above. It remained in place so the deleter obviously accepted that I was never going to let it remain deleted.
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366 – celedrialjoy
Just got home from work , been telling everyone about whats been happening on here and how people are not being allowed to debate. Been telling everyone about ELLIOT BROWN and S1. People could not believe it when I told them what OUR race hate co-ordinator had said about US. I think WEP website is going to get quite a few more hits tonight.

369 – Socialist 1
ha ha you work together. ha ha you been phoning each other with what to say ha ha ha ha. you are pathetic

370 – Morgan
Caught - yes S1, we confess, it's all a conspiracy to drive you insane. And we have been wonderfully successful haven't we. Loon.

371 – Socialist 1
well thats not nice captain is it. and heres us having some fun, winding you up for days and you biting. we have had a really good belly laugh ha ha ha see you around soon ha ha ha i have got some champagne in the fridge mmmmm here to... er not you NAZIS

372 – Morgan
Champagne Socialist eh. Yes, a lot of them around these days."The workers united" indeed.

378 – whatnicknameisnotinusethen
Regarding Nazi Scum1 and his champagne in the fridge.. He claims he doesn't drink????Back to the subject matter....If the police couldn't find out who these girls were by now, then most likely they do not exist. [almost two weeks now since the original alleged incident - Morg]

379 – Britishlady
whatnicknameisnotinusethen ?
Well three or four other people on the bus ?
Plus the Driver, plus more than likely CCTV,
I agree, then most likely they do not exist.
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That was the end of the conversation. Our opponents had left by now, with the story itself having moved back three pages on the Wigan Today website, so very unlikely to be read by new people. We may have won the arguments, and we may have arrived at a satisfactory final conclusion, BUT WE LOST! “SHUT UP” WON.

Folks – we have to analyse this conversation and learn lessons to stop ourselves being so comprehensively beaten in the future. I think the key to it will be in persuading the editor to remove that – effectively – automatic delete function. How likely is that?

Leftards – SHUT UP

Morg – NO!

But through the newspaper’s indulgence of shut-uppery with that delete function, they shut us up anyway just until the story has moved so far back no one new will bother reading it.

Morg
.